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Hector's Airgun Blog

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The DIANA 430L

12/5/2018

11 Comments

 

Part 1.- The creation of the working man

Sometimes in life, there are certain events that have the "smell" of poetic justice.
And this one just might be the case of one.
Let's start with some history:

Back in the days of the "Old DIANA" there were two projects that were supposed to launch DIANA into the world's circuits by making guns specific to a niche market that was, for historical reasons, a very vociferous one: the British market.

Of course the main limitation there is that rifles cannot exceed 12 ft-lbs, and most of DIANA's offerings were easily over that.
Do note the wording of the law: "Rifles cannot exceed 12 ft-lbs."
This, under proper English means that you can have a gun you THINK is legal because you have tested it with all the medium weight pellets that shoot reasonably good and it does not exceed 12 ft-lbs, but then some smart cop that "has your number" comes at you with light pellets.
¿The result?  you guessed it: You have an appointment with Her Majesty's magistrates and a long, hard battle to demonstrate that you are not intent on mass destruction of the Empire's Subjects nor Institutions.

At some point in time, the UK industry, and some companies that export to that market, agreed to self-police and some PCP makers even installed Anti-Tamper devices so that they could not be blamed for "making it easy" on perps to break the law.
DIANA never agreed to that. Studies were conducted using anti-tamper shoulder screws instead of the pins that close the rear of the action and it was found to be prohibitive. Besides, the market for DIANA was (and still is, up to a point), outside the Britannic Majesty's Royal Domains.

So the next solution was to create a short version of some of the actions that could, in most honest cases, limit themselves to about 12 ft-lbs.

And so was born the 430 (as a short version of the 460); and the 280, a short version of the 34.
In essence they share the same piston body length, so you could say that the 430 is the underlever version of the 280, or that the 280 is the breakbarrel version of the 430. Historically speaking the 430 prototype was prior to the 280, though the 280 was commercially  launched before. So, you take your pick.

We came across the 430 when the Stutzen model came into being.

We have always liked the Bergstutzen guns. Light and medium powered, they are ideal for mountain hunting. And so we supported the model.

Even though we warned all the users that the action was limited to about 12 ft-lbs, some decided to ignore the fact and then complain about the cocking effort needed. Yes it was a stout effort, but the guns were never designed to be all day plinking guns.

Fast forward a few years and we come to the present, where the model had been almost relegated because it was a fairly universal complaint that it took too much effort to get only 12 ft-lb back.

BUT, a few of the people at the plant, decided to do something about it, and they installed a long barrel with the 440 muzzle piece, and that allowed a longer lever.
The 430L was born out of the experience and knowledge of the working man. The guy at the plant that tests hundreds if, not thousands of rifles. The guy that puts those guns together.

No engineering degrees, no "Herr Doktor" titles. Just plain common sense trying to make something better.

And so we come to the current state of affairs.

Some were sold in Europe to good success, and at IWA 2018, Airguns of Arizona decided to place an order.

This is the run that we will be discussing here.

Part 2.- The gun

I ordered one under (almost) a pseudonym. Why? I didn't want to risk getting a "selected" model. Too often writers and reviewers are given, even without their knowledge, specially selected guns. I wanted to make sure that I got the run of the mill.
I placed the order on the last days of November, and it arrived today, December 5th. Yes, UPS ground is not the the fastest route, LOL!
I am not a fan of unboxing reviews, but this one merits it because it could explain why some shipments of this particular gun are being delayed.
Gun came "double boxed" but double boxed to a TIGHT degree. It took pushing with the legs another smaller box and pulling with all my strength on the outer box to get one box out of the other.
Picture
Inside the inner box there was a generous layer of eggcrate foam and spacers made out of pellet tin shipping material:
Picture
Scope was mounted and gun was tested (of all things with Baracuda 10.6 grs.pellets) at 20 yards. Why that choice, I really don't know. Odd choice anyway and not representative of the gun's performance potential.
The ONLY reason I can think of is to protect the gun by preventing the dieseling that COULD occur using lighter pellets.
I have not checked zero, that will come at a later date. But it does point out to the fact the AoA is not shipping out boxes. It is actually doing some work to the guns, and possibly the packaging was provided by AoA because it is not the DIANA standard box, nor the new cases that will come online soon.
Another tell-tale aspect is that the serial number is not part of the box
Picture
Someone took the time and patience to cut it out of a "Generic" box, maybe a case of 10 guns (normal size for DIANA).
​
Anyway

The gun is a little longer than the "normal" 430:
Picture
And indeed, this length is dedicated to increase the possible leverage.
Compare the length of the levers in the Stutzen (bottom) and the 430 L (top):
Picture
There is about 2" more lever in the 430L
A different view possibly tells a better story:
Picture
With the fulcrum points fairly aligned, you can see that the 430L has a slightly "beefier" stock (that is fully ambidextrous, BTW), and somewhat more length of handle to grip from.

Now, the measured difference in the lever lengths is of relatively little importance unless we get a meaningful result.
The fulcrum point of the levers is about ½" back from where the action screws are.
In this way, the leverage ratio of the original 430 is approximately : 13" : 3½" that is 3.7
In the case of the 430L the ratio is 15" : 3½" (the cast fulcrum piece has not changed), so that returns a ratio of 4.3
Assuming a compressed spring force of around 170 lbs, then the cocking force of the 430 would be about 45 lbs.
The cocking force needed for the 430L should be about 39½ lbs.
MEASURED values for the 430L can be seen here:
Picture
Picture
Fishing scales might not be lab-accurate, but for the purpose, they are good enough and, above all, they establish a reasonable comparison level.

So, cocking force is reduced by 10%, will this be enough? I don't know. It all depends on the shooters.
For many, the underlever presents a more "ergonomic" way to cock a gun because they can use both arms pulling away and down from the body.

For me, there is still room for improvement, and that may come later in a special edition, but for now this is the offering.

Gun is not a lightweight (DIANA's never are, LOL!), weighing in at 9 # 13 oz with the scope and mounts provided in the combo.
My FT gun weighs in at around 16#, so to ME it is a lightweight gun, but better to let know our friends the weight and let them decide for themselves.
The "Premium" STYLE stock bears some analysis. In this picture the 430L is on top and it is compared to a 34k Premium.
As you can see, the 34k P​remium has a much more "American Classic" flavour to it, straight MonteCarlo, and toe line, slender pistol grip, specially towards the front end, white spacer and slenderer forearm.
On the top, the 430L shows a more "Teutonic" appearance, with the "Ebern" (Boar) back that blends the Monte Carlo to the general curves of the stock, there is also a slight curve on the toe line.
The checkering is also more "restrained", being shorter and less "dynamic".
Picture
What it does have, is a fully ambidextrous cheekpiece, and that is, IMHO, progress.
Minelli definitely knows what they are doing.
In the next picture, the 430 L Is on the bottom, and the 34k Premium is on top:
Picture
Which would be the correct (not to say "right") side for a lefty to look from.

All in all I think it is an agreeable gun to hold, to cock and to shoot.

The fact that the prototype was cobbled together at the plant from existing parts, and then that prototype was refined to what we are seeing today is the most interesting aspect of the whole thing.

How will it shoot? Dunno.

The process of cleaning and shooting and cleaning and cleaning and shooting will start next week, and it is a long, tedious, and serious process.
Only after about 300 shots, and some serious work to the mounts, can we expect to get any reasonable indication of the performance potential of this carbine.

Stay tuned . . . ;-)

Keep well and shoot straight!






​HM
11 Comments
raneman link
6/17/2019 17:56:03

.......hector.......... are you gonna finish this article ? i need the data ! .....i'm fixin ta get a 430L combo from ag's of az - in clearance .177.

Reply
Hector Medina
6/18/2019 19:08:00

Raneman, there is a Part 2 and a Part 3 that have already been published:

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/the-diana-430l-second-entry

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/the-diana-430l-third-and-last-entry-of-an-oem-gun

Read them all, if you have specific doubts, drop me a message through my "contact page":
https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/contact-us.html

Good luck!






HM

Reply
raneman (paul) link
8/11/2019 07:14:57

.. i got my .177 diana 430L from AofA also , but mine came with no groovy new rws 'slider' mount and that rugged-looking rws 3-9x32ao scope ... i almost sent it back , even after test firing to learn of this cocking issue , because i wanted that mount and scope - it seems like it's supposed to come as a combo.... -- and that's way i want to publish it , hector. i still have lots watchers and readers - not like it was before i single tanked 'rane air' my at home small - global - airgun business when i was selling those turkish webleys ... DO YOU HAPPEN TO HAVE AN EXTRA OF THIS SCOPE AND SLIDER MOUNT ??? ..... im gonna ask AofA also, but i think they are out. mr hector medina , you do some really kick-ass up there... i was really worried for you when they were upset about those special order .20 cal versions of various dianas.....too many of us were tanking or imploding , or i just became overwhelmed... i still cant reach c.a.p. airgun research - chris pryjomski. he was a genius and king of the noble patriot, the gun that ruins families and marriages ...(i do repairs for folks around here in n.texas still - but as a hobby.) i most recently used that walther lgv trigger tune from your site...you were right that walther metal one grinded the adjustment screws inside or something... hey, man. what do you think of rebarreling these diana 430L rifles with quality unchoked 5mm barrels ?? hatsan made some great ones for webley vmx (striker 1000) rifles - i motioned for that when i told them everything that had been working here for me with turksh webleys as they created their webley.usa website....stategy to fill the $170 ,20 cal void left from crosman treating sheridan so fucking badly.. those damn indonesian plastic pumpers - sharp innova knock-offs that i sold 200-300 of from legacy sports, i couldnt believe those things were so popular... $36 piece of temporary s.e.asian shit. sold for $90 shipped.. ray moody up in alaska taught me tune and mentored my biz over the phone from there - he was 'super6' on the yellow... he was smart dude. i cant find him either.. but he mentioned to just give them as a consolation (extra) prize with other higher cost orders. -- talk about a 'sleeper' -- .... i'm talking your ear off , and my fingers are numb. email i use on brad's forum is : [email protected] ....keep up the outstanding work !! lemme know about the scope / mount combo.... and most importantly, " how about we try a 430L in .20 cal ?? they say it goes very well with the 12ftlb ideal over there. cheers. - paul douglas self. formerly rane air.

Reply
Hector Medina
8/11/2019 15:07:05

Hello Rane!

You address a bunch of things in your comment., so I will try to answer in order because public discussion of something deserves to be publicly answered. Words, and especially the printed ones, are like rocks, once launched, they cannot be recalled back.
So, clarifying:

The company suffered grievous losses when a number of people, that do NOT understand the concept of the "Semi-Custom" gun balked at the total price of the limited run guns.

Some of them asked for their money back in an opportune manner, before the order was placed with Germany. Some others waited too long and by the time they wanted to back out, there was no way. All deposits had been used and committed to the projects.

A a M o F, the projects were finished.


I STILL have a bunch of special order rifles awaiting people to pay off their balances. I have not sold a SINGLE one that did not belong to the company (the company had to buy directly 5 of the 34's and 8 of the 54's to make the projects happen).
As you can imagine the financial strain of that was very heavy.
I could have used the Connecticut Mechanic's Lien, or Maryland's for that matter, and simply claim property of "abandoned goods" and sold those guns. After all they ARE special. Numbered and engraved with the specific run. Special caliber markings and all the specs right there.

I have not, and the guns are still awaiting for "owners" to claim them through the payment of balances. My lawyer recommended me to charge some modest storage fee that by now has accumulated quite substantially.
ALL "owners" were contacted by EMail at least 2 times, if not more, some did not respond, others responded with absolutely impossible demands that were completely outside the parameters of the proposal.
In short, regardless of what you may have heard, or read, I did not "wrong" anyone and I did not "implode".

The company is alive and well and moved to Maryland because the company is me; and my wife and family have priority over the business.

We have paid our taxes and there is no debt.
Our current consultancy work is FAR more profitable than simple gunsmithing.

I have earned a name in the industry, and it is funny to be at the World's in England and being approached by people that tell me:
"I've read your articles and like them, please continue to write them"

This is in the land of the Cardews, to put it in perspective.

I am not perfect, but I have never harmed anyone intentionally.

Now about your 430, or 430L
The 430 L WAS a COMBO till they dropped the price another $50 to $229.
And AoA has a very specific note in their website that reads:
"Scope and Mount Pictured: Not Included"

I do not sell OEM ZR mounts. All the mounts I purchase are for projects to marry scope and rifle, or to sell as Accurized units.

About re-barreling to 0.20" .- That is a high price job. It is absolutely essential to keep everything in line. The ONLY shortcut I can think of is re-lining the barrel.
Even with "Just the reline", you are looking at spending about twice as much on the customization as you did on the gun.
Any good gunsmith can reline a barrel and L-W has agreed to make liners in 10 mm's OD available on special order but at the same price as their normal barrels.
If you are registered with them as a gunsmith, then they will give you trade price. Delivery of the liner itself takes between 7 and 10 weeks. Plus the work by the gunsmith. I repeat: Any good gunsmith can do a reline job.

Breakbarrels are easier to change caliber if you use the same breechblock and the caliber you want is available.

You can read more about an example here:

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/two-caliber-rifle

Sadly, H&N discontinued the "Laser" pellet, that was an ideal 12 ft-lbs / 0.20" cal. medium range pellet for the small rifles, like the 430L

I have been talking to JSB about making the GTO version of the 13.7, or the new "heavy 0.20", but they are so busy that I do not think that will happen soon.

Thanks fore reading my blog. And sorry to have had to clarify a number of things; my apologies to you in advance if I sound harsh or angry, I am not, I am simply very precise with language.

Keep well and shoot straight!







HM

raneman link
8/12/2019 16:46:55

...thanks for the reply, hector.... it' so 'super hero-like' to understand that you were impervious to the negative feedbacks from whoever, whenever, concerning anything in online airgun land..... this is impressive.... ..moovin on.... i havent decided to dismantle my new 430L yet... i do recall the diana 48 eventually changing the thick, almost bull barrel-like barrel into a smaller barrel inside of a sleeve in later model 48's.... when i read this about a 10mm barrel insert , i thought of this..... im rusty ,but am i on the right track ? ... (an hour later) ...nopes.... this diana 430L has around 14mm outside dia and no shroud.... i'm thinking that relining a barrel would similar drilling out a tad, and i guess putting your own rifling in it...anything like that, hector - and no. i'm not a good airgun smith. the .20 hatsan , and really, even a sheridan barrel would be better for me to work with.... i tell people that if it's the barrel, i cant fix that. i dont even desire to lap barrels...i would like to have a small scale device that could choke a less accurate barel into a better one (crosman 7/16" barrels for ex).. i dont have a machine shop. but what i DO LOVE to do , is fix an airgun that i hear stories about. restoring someone's christmas gift from a deceased relative 30 years ago - and seeing their faces light up when i show them to test fire it right here = priceless . i'd be happy to get crosman to run off some 24" 5mm barrels - about the same as a .22 discovery barrel , which is more like 11.11 mm o.d. we almost had a guy who was on that , who worked right around those barrel machines who was going to run a days worth. i placed a thread on the yellow once , to show crosman, how many would be interested in a .20 disco barrel and it grew so fast steve in ct shut it down. have you noticed a resistance to re-vitalizing 5mm or .20 caliber here in the states , hector. i have (i call em the airgun mafia). jsb only recently has started a new ripple thatsome of us could encourage. --- and i wasnt too much offended by your retort. you were just defending yourself and setting me straight in case i hear anyone talking shit about you . your case isnt like mine , and the others have different experience as well. my mistakes made me hide but i couldnt stay away , and now every once in while i can ammend toward one or two unfavorable transactions . for me, personally , a past wrong righted could be compareable of you going the World's. - rane on.

Reply
Gary McLain
11/12/2020 22:37:50

I have the 20cal. Stutzen Diana with the walther barrel. Also a vortex tune kit. I first had a scope on it. Then took scope off, shooting open sites at 50 yard competition.the goal is to put 5 shots in a 4 inch circle. By the way this is shooting while standing . This rifle is very consistant.I was able to win the competition against a variety of 22 rimfire there were some high powered rifles. I regularly put well over 1000 rounds through it per year. I switched to a peep sight, as my age of my eyes have caused it hard to sight. That change and improved my accuracy tremendously. I love this rifle, it will be the only one I will ever own. Thank you.

Reply
Hector Medina
11/13/2020 01:14:36

That's MIGHTY good shooting, Gary! Congrats!

Drop me a line through the contact page in this website and let me know what peep sight you are using.

THANKS for shooting a DIANA airgun, and thanks for letting me know that CCA's efforts were not in vain.

Keep well and keep us posted!




HM

Reply
Gary McLain
1/2/2021 01:13:13

I found your web page. The peep sight was a Williams FP-AG TK . IT took me 3 years of practice , shooting several thousand rounds to be able to win that completion . they used the clay trap targets. At 50 yrds I hit 4 out of the five. 4 inch DIA. Targets.Iam thinking about going into the field target completion. Thank you .

Hector Medina
1/3/2021 17:06:24

Hello Gary!

Thanks for posting this!

Great shooting by any standards.

Keep well and thanks again!




HM

Reply
sosyal medya uzmanı link
4/21/2025 20:46:49

Hello, it is a very nice article, congratulations. From now on, I will visit you frequently and I am eagerly waiting for your new articles.

Reply
Hector Medina
4/28/2025 16:46:23

Thanks for the kind words.

There are several notes, actually more than 12 years worth of notes in this blog.

You can navigate using the right hand bars and separate those notes that relate to "gear" , "events", "hunting", and "tests".
You can also navigate using the months when the note was published.

By FAR, the best way to navigate this blog is using google.

Type this in the google search bar:

www.ctcustomairguns.com

then a space, and then the subject you want to research.

Google will return a list of related entries.

HTH, keep well and shoot straight!




HM

Reply



Leave a Reply.

    Hector Medina

    2012 US National WFTF Spring Piston Champion
    2012 WFTF Spring Piston Grand Prix Winner
    2013 World's WFTF Spring Piston 7th place
    2014 Texas State WFTF Piston Champion
    2014 World's WFTF Spring Piston 5th place.
    2015 Maine State Champion WFTF Piston
    2015 Massachusetts State Champion WFTF Piston
    2015 New York State Champion WFTF Piston
    2015 US National WFTF Piston 2nd Place
    2016 Canadian WFTF Piston Champion
    2016 Pyramyd Air Cup WFTF Piston 1st Place
    2017 US Nationals Open Piston 3rd Place
    2018 WFTC's Member of Team USA Champion Springers
    2018 WFTC's 4th place Veteran Springer
    2020 Puerto Rico GP Piston First Place
    2020 NC State Championships 1st Place Piston
    2022 Maryland State Champion WFTF 
    2022 WFTC's Italy Member of TEAM USA 2nd place Springers
    2022 WFTC's Italy
    2nd Place Veteran Springers
    2023 WFTC's South Africa Member TEAM USA 1st place Springers
    2023 WFTC's South Africa
    2nd Place Veteran Springers

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