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The DIANA 430L.- second entry

12/11/2018

9 Comments

 

Part 3.- First Shots

First of all, and to let everyone down from the start, I am NOT going to post MV's for the time being, neither am I going to mention which pellets I am using, just be assured they are "mid-weights".
There is little sense in chronoing and defining a pellet in a gun that has not been "run-in". 

In part 1 we looked into the history of the rifle; and in part 2 we looked into the gun itself.
​
On this part 3 we'll go into those first crucial shots.


The first shots of ANY barrel are crucial to the accurate life of the barrel. In SOME guns, this accurate life may be as short as a few hundred to a thousand rounds (Wildcats, like the 0.22" / 338 Wby Mag), in some other guns, that accurate life may have the potential to be as long as hundreds of thousands of rounds (airguns in general).
BUT, unless you want to find yourself in the need of some heroic measures, like fire-lapping the barrel, then your best bet is to simply do it right from the beginning.

It does require patience and perseverance, but it can be done, and as long as you keep the final goal in mind it is not THAT bothersome. It just takes time.

What you see here is the first target shot with the 430L
Picture
There are 70 shots in this card, 65 in the group at the bottom, and then 5, one at each little chicken on top.
The shots were taken indoors at 15 yards (though the target was designed for offhand shooting at 6 yards, the small size of the animals makes it a fun target to shoot from the FT position).

The ruler is set to 12 mm's (a tad less than ½") and the process to create the group (and to start the run-in of the barrel) was as follows:

1 shot, clean
another shot, clean
repeat for 10 shots (so far, 10 shots)
Now take 5 shots, clean
another 5 shots, clean
repeat till you accumulate 10 cleans (so far, 60 shots)
Now take 10 shots (5 into the group and then one at each chicken), clean
So in this card we accumulated 70 shots.

Time came to get serious and to go to the Monday night airgun practice at DIFTA.
The range there is 10 meters, so I took some targets that are designed for 10 meters, and used one target from those supplied by the club to do some more "running-in"" 
Picture
Each group is comprised of 10 shots, after every 10 shots, the gun got cleaned.
All groups were shot offhand at 10 meters, as required by the rules of the range.

At the same time that the groups were being shot, the scope was being sighted in, after group 4 I reduced the magnification from 9X to 4X (which is about the same as using match iron sights) and proceeded to shoot groups 5 and 6.

It is clear that the gun is starting to settle, groups are becoming rounder, and more controllable.

The fact that group 6 is a "doughnut" speaks more about the shooter's limitations (fatigue and lack of practice)  than about the gun's performance.

So, by this time, the rifle has gone through 130 shots and it has been on a regimen of shoot 10/clean for 7 times.

Because the range session was coming to an end, I decided to shoot a silhouette half course (20 shots), and I would say that the result (14 out 20) is about what could be expected from a new gun and the lack of practice of this winter (there has been no Zimmer-Silhouetten shoot this year, too busy). 
Picture
I did notice, though, one peculiarity of the ZR Mounts provided: Every time I loaded the gun (standing) , my body pushed against the mounts a little, and that was enough to alter the POI.
On the last row (the rams), I took the precaution of resetting the ZR Mounts for every shot (by pushing it forward and letting it go), and that improved the repeatability of the POI.

So, there you have it, the first 150 shots of the new 430L

All in all, I would say that, based on past experience, this gun can/should yield groups of about ½" at 30 yards when properly setup and using the pellets that the barrel will settle into best.
The shot cycle is very nice and completely vibration free. It is quick and authoritative. Nothing "mushy" about the gun, the lockup or the shot cycle.

It DOES take a special technique to cock for extended sessions, as the effort is concentrated on just about 5/8ths-3/4rs of the possible cocking stroke. So a good, sudden, pull that can JUST get the gun cocked is the best way to deal with this.

The 430, the 430L and the 460 share the same lock-up, and so, I will be attentive to detect if this particular model suffers from the same "weaknesses" as those other models. Luckily, those "weaknesses", are well documented and easy to solve.

Am I happy with my purchase? YES!, most of the friends at the shoot complimented the stock, and the looks of the gun, and some even complimented the shooting, LOL! But then they are good friends.

At this price level ($300 + Sh) it is clearly one of the most accurate 0.177" cal springers in this power range.

With this, we're halfway to the 300 shots minimum that I would consider essential to be made under absolutely controlled conditions, once we reach the 300 number, we can open the gun (to do some "looksee" and decide whether it would be wise to get it tuned and to what extent); work on the mounts and on finding the magic pellet; and ,hopefully, add a better scope worthy of the long range capabilities of this little gun.

Keep well and shoot straight!






HM
9 Comments
dan house
12/14/2018 13:05:27

No ZS this year? Ok, I'll just shoot it for the practice and improvement potential.... :)

Sounds like your on to another great setup. Be following this one as it evolves.

Reply
Hector Medina
12/14/2018 13:52:53

Sorry, Dan!
Too busy. I really do not have time to score and collate the results.
Hopefully, next year as the kids grow, I will get a few minutes extra and we can resume.
The 430L is truly a great little gun.
And inexpensive, as quality springers go.
;-)

Keep well and shoot straight!




HM

Reply
RidgeRunner
12/28/2018 08:29:04

Hector,

Up until Christmas day I owned the precursor to these air rifles, the Diana 46 in .22. My son-in-law went to a fun shoot with me this past November and fell in love with it. It became his first air rifle.

Over the years I have owned a number of fixed barrel sproingers. As a general rule the breakers are not there yet, but they will be soon.

Reply
Hector Medina
12/28/2018 10:36:05

You're a nice F-i-L!

The 46's were great guns within their limitations.
My first Stutzen was a 46, till someone came along and swapped me a Steyr Zephyr De Luxe for it. Yes it was THAT good, LOL!
When the chance to have a special run made, it was a given.
The 430 corrects the two main issues with the 46, basically, the long and inefficient transfer/loading port and the flying gasket that got lost, usually at the worst possible time in a hunt.
It does this by bringing the sliding cylinder of the 460 architecture, and the "L" model also helps by improving the yield for a given cocking force.
So far on mine, the breech closing spring and the seal are doing their job well, so hopefully, this means that the upgraded specs are working and these two issues are a thing of the past.

Thanks for reading!



HM

Reply
RidgeRunner
1/4/2019 07:36:44

No, it is indeed not a powerhouse, but it sure is a tack driver. He does not even have a scope on it and he is regularly flipping the 3/4" spinner at 25 yards.

"What good is 500 FPE if you can't hit what you are shooting at?"

Steve
1/26/2019 00:15:26

Would this gun be accurate enough for FT competition ? Do you have any idea what the grouping would be at 55 yards ? I'm just getting started in FT so I wanted something accurate but not at the cost of the tx 200 if that possible. I was going to shoot in the 12 foot pound class .

Reply
Hector Medina
1/28/2019 15:10:37

Hello Steve!

Properly handled during the shooting-in, I am sure the gun is capable of FT accuracy. You DO need to remember that for FT there are better guns. If you are only thinking about an occasional match here and there, you can do good, but as a DEDICATED FT gun, it is too much of a "sporter".
To put it in another way: Gun is accurate, but a dedicated FT gun needs to be very "shootable" and shooting a sporter gun like the 430L at top FT levels would require a top FT shooter.
Write to me through the "Contact Page" in this website and we can explore some avenues for you.

Thanks for reading!




HM

Reply
Travis
2/18/2019 15:20:38

Hi Hector,

What is your process for cleaning the barrel? Wet and dry patches? Do you ever use JB Bore paste or Bore Bright?

Thanks for the valuable articles!

Travis

Reply
Hector Medina
2/18/2019 16:45:31

Hello Travis!

A few days ago I posted this in the GTA forum:

"Quote from: RBQChicken on February 11, 2019, 07:28:13 PM

Hector,

Thanks for those links, very interesting.

When cleaning between shots, do you just use clean patches, or should you use something like Goo Gone and then clean patches? Do you have to clean until the patches come out clean each time, or just a quick run down the bore once between shots?

Also, why does cleaning between the shots help the barrel to be less pellet fussy down the road? Thanks!

Unquote


There are two reasons, one for airguns and one for firearms, not the same, but then neither are the projectiles.

The method I use to clean is using an OTIS "pull-through" it is a steel cable (and before everyone yells "Heresy"! I have to clarify that the steel cable is covered with some very resistant plastic), that uses their own system of round patches with three holes.
Every patch gets used three times and the fit is tight and nice, just follow OTIS' instructions.

Here is a link:
https://otistec.com/17cal-patriot-gun-cleaning-kit/#product-tab-description

and:

https://otistec.com/2-small-caliber-cleaning-patches/

I buy their patches by the thousand's box, LOL! and even though my kit was originally marketed by Marksman (now Marksman-Beeman) MANY years ago, the 2" patches are still available and are as good as ever.

Three pulls (taking care neither to rub the crown, nor to get dust all over your cable), and you're done.

Why it works:

In airguns:
Basically, because using the residual carbon of the burning of the oils as a very mild "cleaning" agent, and doing it always in the same direction, you are micro-polishing the bore, lands, grooves and all. The small amount of antimony in quality pellets, also allows the residues to act as a "cleaner".
Using a cleaning agent, would actually be counterproductive in this case because cleaning agents tend to "lift" the dirt and residues, instead of using pressure and the residues themselves to smooth things out.
Remember that airgun barrels are, usually, not made of "Barrel steel" but of DOM tubing, some stiffer than other (depends on the spec), but basically it is an industrial commodity. So, using the carbon and the salts and the antimony, is usually good enough in a quality airgun barrel.

In Firearms:
Primers' compounds have glass. Yes, silica. With the temperature and friction, some of it converts to silicon oxide. An abrasive.
By cleaning every round, then every 5, then every ten, etc . . . . you ensure that the little irregularities in the steel (product of the way steel is made and worked), do not get overemphasized by the silicon oxide accumulating in the microcavities and then making them grow with the next shot.
The result is a smooth barrel.

Why is smooth important?
Because the irregularities of the barrel are one of the main reasons why barrels vibrate. And vibrations are bad for accuracy. Even more so when you are working at the lower fringe of energy needed for the projectile to come out of the bore. A barrel that is smooth and vibrates little, usually is more pellet tolerant. Rough barrels or barrels that are uneven/non uniform, usually shoot well with only ONE pellet (if at all).

At 35,000 PSI's (not to use CUP's), even medium obstacles can be overcome and ensure a stable flight from a projectile that is between 7 and 30 times heavier than our medium weight pellets. Working at 20 ft-lbs is a completely different game. And if you have ever put a pellet through a Match barrel, you will have noted that the finish is about 10 times better. Because Match guns operate at under 5.5 ft-lbs.

Is this process an absolute, fireproof, bulletproof, foolproof, way of getting an accurate barrel? Nope! there are other things that come into play, but in a sense it is like having a reasonably uniform MV: A perfectly uniform MV does not guarantee accuracy/precision, but a MV that varies all over the place sure ensures the lack thereof.

So, that is how you do it, and that is why it works. You may opt NOT to do it, and that would be fine with me, at least now you will be taking an informed decision.

HTH, Keep well and shoot straight!





HM

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    Hector Medina

    2012 US National WFTF Spring Piston Champion
    2012 WFTF Spring Piston Grand Prix Winner
    2013 World's WFTF Spring Piston 7th place
    2014 Texas State WFTF Piston Champion
    2014 World's WFTF Spring Piston 5th place.
    2015 Maine State Champion WFTF Piston
    2015 Massachusetts State Champion WFTF Piston
    2015 New York State Champion WFTF Piston
    2015 US National WFTF Piston 2nd Place
    2016 Canadian WFTF Piston Champion
    2016 Pyramyd Air Cup WFTF Piston 1st Place
    2017 US Nationals Open Piston 3rd Place
    2018 WFTC's Member of Team USA Champion Springers
    2018 WFTC's 4th place Veteran Springer
    2020 Puerto Rico GP Piston First Place
    2020 NC State Championships 1st Place Piston
    2022 Maryland State Champion WFTF 
    2022 WFTC's Italy Member of TEAM USA 2nd place Springers
    2022 WFTC's Italy
    2nd Place Veteran Springers
    2023 WFTC's South Africa Member TEAM USA 1st place Springers
    2023 WFTC's South Africa
    2nd Place Veteran Springers

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