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The DIANA 430L.- third, and last entry of an OEM gun

1/23/2019

11 Comments

 

Part 4.- Pellet selection and Chronoing

​Sorry for the delay in getting to this point. I have been extremely busy with some ABP's, but those are done and hopefully, we can now get to work on other things. Though an ABP would seem an ideal addition to the 430L, LOL!
I need to find a a way to make them less complicated.  ;-)

Anyway, after a full tin of pellets had been put through the 430L, we started testing pellets:
Picture
We tested the old trusted standby's, as well as some innovative pellets that I received  from unexpected sources. Funny how things happen just out of the blue, but it is rewarding to see that the Blog is read and respected all  over the world.
Rifle is a Brazilian company, they make pellets in two different "categories" the sport line (which we would call "plinking" here and the Premium line, that we would call "shooting" in the US.
Their Sport line produced "minute of can" groups, not bad, but not what we are looking for.
Their Premium line, however produced some interesting groups.
COAL is a Central European company that makes pellets the old way: rolled. And for the technology, they make interesting designs, however, none of their offerings produced acceptable results from THIS gun. We will be testing them in other guns and we will be offering some advice to the "Rifle Company" because they do have the potential, they only need to polish up some points in their production.

Having said that, we will concentrate then on four different pellets for the 430L:

First, the Baracuda FT, a pellet that is not easy to make shoot well. It has a very rear-wards CoG (Center of Gravity), and therefore requires a somewhat "tight" rifling, but it seems the 430L likes them.
Because the group in the test target above was "tainted" by another group made by pellets that I will not even name, I shot another test group, but this time 10 shots:
Picture
On purpose, I didn't shoot anything else in this target.
Just to show how clean the group is.
Now, 11.3 ft-lbs is nothing to sneeze at, specially if part of the interests of the shooter is an occasional FT Match here and there. But because the BFT (Baracuda Field Target) is a heavy pellet (9.57 grs.) the MV  is rather slow: 731 fps.
Those of you that went to Pyramyd Air Cup, received two samplers of this pellet, classified by lots.
PLEASE, if you have not tested them, do so. H&N went the whole 11 yards to get market feedback, and they deserve our attention.
You do not need to make public your findings (I will not), but a short Email telling them what lot you found best, or if no pellets shot good from your gun, and what gun / lube / MV you are using, is good information for them.
They are NOT doing this as a marketing gimmick, they are really and truly interested in YOUR results. So, please, take the time to shoot some groups, measure them and send the data to H&N. As airgunners WE WILL ALL be better for it.
The BFT is an interesting pellet when it shoots well out of the specific airgun you are interested in because it has very little susceptibility to wind.
Part is due to the weight, and part is the slow MV, but also part is the design of the head...
Will your gun like them?
You need to test, after all, it is part of the fun!

Curiously enough, I found that this particular gun likes the 4.53's JSB's (only offered in 8.44 grs.). It shoots acceptably well  the FT Premium, but the EXACTS are truly amazing.
Picture
Do remember that the black "dots" are a little under ½" and do compare the hole made by the S-100 pellets  (A Match WC) that is truly 4.5 mm's across.
It was notable that the JSB's 8.44's / 4.53's went into two distinct, but very close holes. There are three pellets in the top right section and two in the lower left. But they are so close together!
This points out to the need of controlling the barrel's harmonics, OR, preventing outright the generation of those. In here is where the ABP would probably help.
The S-100's shot better than the RWS SuperMag (a pellet I have found to be very accurate at or above 12 ft-lbs, where the normal Match pellets start destabilizing). But still the Exacts did prove to be the overall best pellet.

As to the Brazilian offerings, the Domed proved to be better than the WC, not surprising at this distance:
Picture
Although I have noted the ME's for the pellets of interest, just to provide you with the data and not make you reverse calculate the MV's, they were:

BFT.- 731 +/- 3  fps
JSB.- 784 +/- 6 fps
S-100.- 815 +/- 5 fps
Rifle Premium "Round" .- 794 +/- 4 fps

Now, in case you are wondering why these groups were shot a 25 yards instead of the usual 35 yds/ 32 meters, the reason is the weather:
Picture
There is a song in Spanish that says:

"Thank you, Life, for giving me laughs and tears
Through them I distinguish joys from heartbreaks
Specially through the eyes of my beloved"

And so, we need to learn to live through the winters and the summers; without both of them, life would be somewhat boring.

Now, indoor shooting also offers some rewards:
Picture
This doesn't happen as often as I would like, but when it happens, it makes you feel Oh, SOoooo Goooooood! LOL!

Conclusions and work for the future

The 430L is definitely an improvement over the 430 and the 440.
It shows clearly how the persons on the assembly floor can contribute to the products, if only management is willing to listen.
The added barrel and lever length make the gun an enjoyable experience.

Accuracy and Precision potential are there, and that is as far as a manufacturer can go, the actual achievement of that potential is up to the users.

Yes, there is still room for improvement but that will take a bit more than getting different parts together. It will take a re-design of the cocking linkages. We'll see where we get on that end.
On the piston end, the gun does exhibit a definite re-bound. A gas spring with its more constant-force curve would be one solution, but then we're back to the large cocking force needed, and straight from the start. Plus the challenges of making the piston a non-rotating piston are not easily solved.
Another solution would be an anti-bounce piston (ABP), we'll look into that later, but we need to re-define (and refine) the design.
The current Muzzle piece almost precludes the use of a Harmonics Tuner, or Harmonics Reducer, we will continue thinking about that, but it would be a funny looking contraption.

Hope you all are enjoying the seasons, the changes, and the challenges that life brings; after all, life is a trip and the final destination is not that enjoyable, ROFL!

Keep well and shoot straight!





​HM
11 Comments
Don Carkhuff
1/24/2019 13:53:02

Good stuff Hector. I also enjoy the seasons.
I am a new Grandpa, son and daughter have boys 7 months apart. What a difference a year makes.

Lately, I have been basement shooting at 20 yards with RWS52 Williams peep sight AND custom globe front sight made by you. My off-hand average is 1.1 inch when I'm feeling great. I also am shooting a RWS34 with fiber optic sights. Groups are bigger but not by much. I have "the old family video camera" focused on the paper target and a 20" TV monitor facing my shooting location. Very easy to score a target since it's being so huge on the monitor.
Keep up the interesting stuff on your blog. Always a pleasure to read.

Reply
Hector Medina
1/24/2019 18:17:25

Hello Don!

Congrats on the grandkids!

Thanks for reading, and thanks for your kind words.

I am glad you're happy with that "Korn tunnel".

Probably, if you want to take the next step, you should look into the "Microsight" by Sinclair.
It is a truly outstanding improvement over the simple peeps. At least for my eyes.

Again, thanks!, keep well and shoot straight!




HM

Reply
Don Palumbo
1/28/2019 08:05:33

Hector, I just wanted to update you on the D34 piston and buttons that you so graciously sent me last year. My father in-law loves the rifle and a couple weeks ago I was actually able to put about 30 pellets through the rifle killing some soda cans at 35 yards. the rifle is still pleasing to shoot and excellent performance. I was shooting off hand and most of the pellets were hitting exactly where I aimed. Your modified piston works well and transformed a basket case into a real shooter

Reply
Hector Medina
1/28/2019 08:48:28

Hello Don!

I am glad you are keeping those "Zombie cans" at Bay. LOL!

I was just thinking about that D34 the other day. Hope your FiL is having as much fun.

Keep well and shoot straight, my friend!


HM

Reply
Alejandro O. Martinez
11/21/2019 01:29:18

Hector, because of your excellent write-up in your blog reporting on the Diana 430L,
I just purchased one from Airguns of Arizona.
https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/spring-piston/diana-model-430l-combo-.177/
they are on sale for $140.

Reply
Hector Medina
11/21/2019 16:54:14

Wow!

Great info and nice score!

Do note that at that price you are getting the rifle only. No scope, no mounts.
Just making sure you saw that in AoA website.

Keep us posted!





HM

Reply
Alejandro O Martinez
12/1/2019 14:21:17

Well, a couple of days ago I took delivery of a Diana 430L from Airguns of Arizona for $149 and a Bullseye ZR-Mount.

Along-with a Diana 240 from PyramydAir and a ZR-Mount.
I'd been wanting a full-power 240 after I purchased a 240 from John of PA.
He had prepped a 240 for his wife's use ... however, she preferred his Crosman CO2 rifle instead.
I was the beneficiary of a 500-ps little breakbarrel.
The OEM version produces a slightly higher velocity.

Moreover, after Jacob of AoA affirmed-to-me the length-of-pull of a 430 was 13 1/2-inches, I decided to purchase a second Diana 430L.

Alejandro O Martinez
12/1/2019 15:26:55

Out-of-the-box first impression.
The 430L is a lot of rifle for $150 ... definitely money well-spent for two.
A very impressive springer ... a good-quality feel in-the-hand.
And exuding good-workmanship to the eye.

This IS NOT a small air rifle.
It is good-sized airgun with noticeable heft.
I mounted the ZR-Mount and Centerpoint 3-12X44 PLT.
All combined weighing-in at 10lbs 5oz ... this ain't light.

I've spent the afternoon sighting-in my 430L.
Not an easy task for me... after a while the size-and-weight of the rifle becomes trying.
Still working-on trying-to figure-out the best hold using Crosman Premire 7.9gr HP.
Got a lot more shooting to do.

Reply
Hector Medina
12/2/2019 10:46:11

Hello Alex!
I am glad you liked them.
I agree that the 430L is no "k" gun, or light gun, it is in the end, a 430 action. Similar to the 430 Stutzen you've had for some years.
It cannot deny the lineage.
AaMoF, it ADDS weight in the barrel and lever length, and in the muzzle piece. The shorter stock reduces very little weight.

On the other hand it is MUCH shorter than a 460 or a 350, and lighter than a 48 or 54.
So, it's not a "heavyweight" either.

It is a medium weight springer with a medium length.

It does have a "stout" peak cocking force, and I understand when you say that a long day gets trying.
But it is mostly a question of technique, not strength.
I have shot FT matches with the Stutzen that is even more challenging because of its shorter length of lever.
As you surely have read, the technique required is a little like a weightlifter's technique where a sudden explosion of energy gets everything done in one short, quick "go". At least, that works for me.
I would suggest you use a more medium weight pellet (8.44's or 8.48's), in 4.53 mm's head size. Specially on the initial shots.

And even moreso if you are choosing to disregard the shoot&clean discipline needed to ensure a long accurate life to the barrel.

Mine seems to perform best with a mildly firm grip, and definitely abhorrs the "Artillery Hold", LOL!

Also remember that the 430L has the same known weaknesses of the 460 and the 430, so you do need to check on your breech seal often.
The same re-inforced breech seals we made for the Stutzen will work in the 430L.

Thanks for the pictures! Very pretty set of DIANA's, congrats!

Keep well and shoot straight!






HM

Reply
Alejandro O Martinez
12/1/2019 22:10:13

Here’s my new Dianas.
[URL=http://s84.photobucket.com/user/aom22/media/Diana%20Airguns/1EFB848C-81D4-406F-8B52-3D3F0A7BB181.jpeg.html][IMG]https://oi84.photobucket.com/albums/k21/aom22/Diana%20Airguns/th_1EFB848C-81D4-406F-8B52-3D3F0A7BB181.jpeg[/IMG][/URL]

Best group of the day
[URL=http://s84.photobucket.com/user/aom22/media/Diana%20Airguns/59DD4106-16B9-41CB-8DF6-9B256D7F6350.jpeg.html][IMG]https://oi84.photobucket.com/albums/k21/aom22/Diana%20Airguns/th_59DD4106-16B9-41CB-8DF6-9B256D7F6350.jpeg[/IMG][/URL]

Reply
Alejandro O Martinez
12/1/2019 22:20:33

https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k21/aom22/Diana%20Airguns/1EFB848C-81D4-406F-8B52-3D3F0A7BB181.jpeg~original

https://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k21/aom22/Diana%20Airguns/59DD4106-16B9-41CB-8DF6-9B256D7F6350.jpeg~original

Reply



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    Hector Medina

    2012 US National WFTF Spring Piston Champion
    2012 WFTF Spring Piston Grand Prix Winner
    2013 World's WFTF Spring Piston 7th place
    2014 Texas State WFTF Piston Champion
    2014 World's WFTF Spring Piston 5th place.
    2015 Maine State Champion WFTF Piston
    2015 Massachusetts State Champion WFTF Piston
    2015 New York State Champion WFTF Piston
    2015 US National WFTF Piston 2nd Place
    2016 Canadian WFTF Piston Champion
    2016 Pyramyd Air Cup WFTF Piston 1st Place
    2017 US Nationals Open Piston 3rd Place
    2018 WFTC's Member of Team USA Champion Springers
    2018 WFTC's 4th place Veteran Springer
    2020 Puerto Rico GP Piston First Place
    2020 NC State Championships 1st Place Piston
    2022 Maryland State Champion WFTF 
    2022 WFTC's Italy Member of TEAM USA 2nd place Springers
    2022 WFTC's Italy
    2nd Place Veteran Springers
    2023 WFTC's South Africa Member TEAM USA 1st place Springers
    2023 WFTC's South Africa
    2nd Place Veteran Springers

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