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Documented behaviour of an N-Tec powered D34 in cold weather

1/2/2018

3 Comments

 
As is normal for this time of year, there are conversations in the fora, facebook and in the airgun chat rooms about what is the behaviour of Spring-Piston airguns in cold weather.

And with winter temperatures getting more and more extreme (CNN reported 150 million US Citizens under Wind Chill alert for 2018 New Years Eve and record lows expected in 27 locations, with further 24 record-breaking lows for today -Tuesday-), I think it is normal to start thinking about the long term future of the winter hunt or FT Match and how to prepare for it.
Some may say that the solution is a PCP, but that is not quite right. Filling procedures need to be different in Sub-Freezing temperatures than in warmer conditions, and the lubing of the hammer/action also needs some attention. Shot count may or may not be affected, it depends on how your regulator works (or not) at sub-freezing temps.

Sadly, there is a lot of misinformation out there, from some manufacturers claiming that their (insert the name here -Nitro Piston / Re-Axis / Gas Piston / NP2 / Vortex Gas Spring, etc.- ) are not affected at all by cold weather, to those "experts" that perform tests with large freezers and/or in cold cities (there are about 14 cities in the US and their urban areas with populations in excess of 1 million that statistically have more than 100 freezing days in a year, and the list is growing), that show decreases in performance of between 8 and 13%

RANT WARNING!
IMHO:
Some of those videos perform what I would call "Scientific Murder".- invoking one bit of science to explain everything that is going inside a cold airgun, most of them use the Gay - Lussac Gas Law, which a particularization of the Ideal Gas Law.
In their minds, the pressure in a vessel that is dependent on the temperature once a specific volume of gas has been sealed in, is the all-explaining, all-encompassing law of physics that explains the decrease in performance of some airguns (those tested).
And the fact that the reduction in MV coincides numerically with the calculation of the loss of pressure is the proof-positive that all gas springs HAVE to suffer the same reduction in output.

Problems are:
1.- The Gay-Lussac Law in essence is just a manifestation of the Law of Conservation of Energy, therefore MV has nothing to do with energy unless we understand that there is a quadratic relation between them
2.- There are other aspects besides the "spring force" that determine the output of a gun. Some guns are more efficient than others, some are less. From seal sizing and hardening with cold, to lube thickening/sticking, to lead hardness, to air density, and others, the "Force" of the spring is definitely not the only quantity that matters.

The OSS (Over Simplification Syndrome) is a common human trait. We generalize the bad things that happen in our life and attribute it to one single cause of our choosing (from the specific "god of ---", to "those blooming inmigrants", to "those -expletive-  -religious group-") without stopping to think that perhaps our problems are more complicated than the one-dimensional life we imagine.
It is so common, in fact, that it's one of the preferred tools of tyrants to control a population: Drive down the educational standard, turn them all into simpletons, then control them through their fear of -mostly imaginary-  enemies.

RANT OVER

So, let's look in detail at what can happen when one gun is prepared, from the beginning, to be as stable as possible under all environmental conditions.
Granted that this is another one of those "ONE GUN" experiments, but in this particular instance what was done to the gun is a KNOWN quantity, whereas in the cases I've ranted about above, the specific condition of the specific test gun is a complete unknown.

An important factor here is to define what is "cold".

When we landed in South Connecticut some years ago, we took it for granted that winters with temps in the 258° K ( about 5° F) would be normal winter temps. Then we started noticing the temps in Minneapolis, Chicago, Minnesota, Milwaukee, Rochester, etc.), and realized that there were much colder places.
What has changed in fairly recent years is the deepening of the "Polar Vortex" that has driven the winter temperatures in the EAST of the US to record lows year in and year out.
Then we moved to Maryland and I hoped I would not have to shovel the usual 9 ft of snow and that the winters would be less harsh. Well, so far at least, one of the hopes is true. No shoveling till today, but temps in the 260° K (about 8° F), belie the fact that summers here will reach 303 °K (about 86 °F) with over  93% humidity.

So, the tests I am going to describe were done in Maryland, are valid for the gun tested (a 0.20" cal D34 converted to N-Tec) and are not intended to be a "universal description" of what can be expected from the run of the mill, OEM issued, airgun equipped with a gas piston of any name.

The test setup was quite simple:
Picture
​A rifle, a chrono that was kept indoors till the time to test was at hand, the rifle's preferred pellets and a pellet trap. Nothing complicated.
Do note however, that I am using the infrared lit screens. At least THIS chrono operates with infrared light. And trusting the infrared (heat) emission of a cold sky is inviting disaster in a test.

Picture
What is different here is the gun itself.
It started life as limited edition D34 with a short Lothar Walther barrel of our own design, and a Premium stock.
The internals were then changed to N-Tec as described in the above-mentioned blog entry.
The stem of the N-Tec piston was lubed with Ultimox  PTFE oil and the OEM seal was lubed with powdered MoS2. The central "dead area" of the seal was filled with a UHDPE bumper.
Piston's skirt  was buttoned with UHDPE.
Trigger sears and stem button were coated with dry-lube.
This gun has been tested under fire in a few FT Matches, taking 2nd in the 2016 NY State Championship Open Piston class with a score that would have been middle of the pack with the PCP's:
Picture
As well as in the 2017 Pyramyd Air Cup Gunslynger, where it won me the 2nd place in a battle of epic proportions, LOL!
So, my point is that it is a "Well Characterized" entity.
In the humid Maryland summers at 303 °K (about 86°F) and 95+ % humidity, it shoots the H&N FTT at around 770 fps
In Ohio's Fall, it shot 805 fps at 288 °K (around 59°F) and less than 30% humidity.
So, how would it perform under Maryland winter weather at around 263°K (14°F) and 15% humidity?


The rifle was almost cocked and let down three times before setting it out in the cold to acquire the ambient temperature.
Then it was left in the cold for one full hour.
After a full hour had elapsed, we took a reading of the outdoor thermometer:

Picture
As you can see, the temperature was -8.9°C (let's call that 264°K or about 16°F)

Freezing, yes, but not as cold as the Minneapolis winters.

Then we shot three shots for warm-up/conditioning that read: 764, 777, and 787 fps

Once we were out of the "cold bore" scenario, we shot a 6 shot string:
Picture
As you can see, the average velocity was 788 with a Std. Deviation of 4 fps. Pretty much in line with the humid, hot performance, and 17 fps under the peak performance in optimum conditions (cool, & dry). It may sound high, but in reality it is only a 2% difference.

So, if the Gay-Lussac Law had predicted something like a 13% difference in the gas spring pressure and therefore a similar reduction in the spring force, what happened with the 11% here?

Of course when hunting, or even when shooting FT, you do not rely on taking 3 shots to then take your "for score" shots. Your gun needs to be able to shoot within reasonable limits even if the next bunny or squirrel (whether metal or not) does not present itself in a short time.

So, I left the gun out and waited ½ hour, these are the results:
Picture
As you can see, the first shot from "cold" was 781, the next one was again 787 fps.

And not happy with only these results I set the gun outside to wait for the next target a full hour, and this is what the gun gave:
Picture
The first shot was 782.

Now, in REAL terms, ¿what can we expect from a change in MV of about 5 to 6 fps (from 788 where we did all our zeroing and trajectory to the first of string "cold" shot of 781-782)? Assuming we are ethical hunters that check their zeroes before actually starting to hunt and possibly, check the trajectory as well.
From actual shooting and using PP-Calc, I know that the H&N FTT pellet out of this rifle gives a BC of about 0.04 (yes its a good one).
And that, using a 37 yard zero with a Kill Zone of 1" (½"up or down from the LOS). gives me a PBR of 43 yards.
Picture
Even in the worst of cases, if I used my "peak performance" data, I would still be pretty close:
Picture
So close that. in fact the difference in drop at 43 yards is less than 1/30"
I would have to be shooting at 60 yards to have one pellet diameter of difference.

So, why do some gas spring guns live up to expectations and some others don't?

Where is the difference between the 2% MV loss and the 13% loss of pressure?

PROBABLY, and this is only a hypothesis because I can only talk about my gun and I will not generalize one way or another, the difference is in what my UK friend Tony Leach calls "The Lost Volume", that is: that swept volume of air that does "nothing" to propel the pellet because it is produced "in excess" under "normal shooting conditions". In other words, this gun may not be operating at PEAK EFFICIENCY, but it is operating at the PEAK STABILITY.

And THAT, my friends is what matters most in reality.

Over the 18 years that I have been dealing seriously with airguns, and the 6 years that I have been doing this professionally, I have learnt only TWO things:

1.- That pellets do NOT like flying faster than 875 fps
2.- That the devil is in the minutiae.

ALL those little details that people tend to disregard as "unimportant", or as "secondary factors that are material and design dependent" are what makes or breaks the reliable performance of an airgun.

Keep well, keep warm, and shoot straight!
Picture
HM
3 Comments
Donnie Reed
1/2/2018 16:14:19

Hello, Hector!

My name is Donnie Reed. I have the little airgun channel ALL THINGS AIRGUN on Youtube. I'm fairly certain that you're addressing me here on some level or the other. LOL

I'm honored! It would seem that we agree more than disagree, though. It's also possible that you misunderstand my intention with the video.

You mention "over-simplification" of science. I mean no offense, but "simplification" was precisely my goal. I meant to illustrate the point that the manufacturer claims that gas pistons aren't affected by cold weather is patently false. I chose the Gay-Lussac Law specifically because the equation is P is directly proportional to T. They don't come much simpler than that. Everybody gets that. The entirety of the ideal gas law was unnecessary to make my point. Like I said, I wanted to keep it simple.


Also, I definitely address that the effect of the temperature on the seal and lubrication can be a contributing factor. I've never measured each individually, but being that a metal coil (steel) spring under tension increases in spring rate under colder conditions, and steel coil springers are known to lose MV in cold weather as well, the effect on the seal and lube and absolutely everything else is clearly enormous.

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I was trying to explain anything more than I did. No more or less than gas piston guns are certainly affected by cold weather, and the effect that the Gay-Lussac Law will most definitely have on any sealed container of gas. Cheers, and congratulations on your successes! :)

Reply
Hector Medina
1/3/2018 14:52:31

Hello Donnie!

Thanks for posting. I am the one that is honored. And I hope I can convince you to do something together. You have skills that I don't and it would be very nice to cooperate in this subject.

At a certain level, yes I was talking about your video, but not ONLY about your video. From Airgun Academy's statement that Gas Spring guns "loose 5 fps" vs "50 fps" of steel springs and then goes on to recommend buying an RX-2, to Airguns of Minnesota comparison of two Hatsan 125 showing losses of 59 fps for the gas spring vs. 66 fps for the steel spring version, to somewhat vacuous articles in UK's Airgun World (Jan 1, 2016), to comments in Airgun Home, and Cast Boolits Fora.

Again, my main gripe is the LACK of a focused approach to the problem.

I did note that you mentioned the seals and the lubricants, and I appreciated that.

I just think we can do much better:
Manufacturers of gas springs note (pretty much across the board from Italy to Brazil and the US), that Gas Springs will loose about 3.6% for every 10 °K:
http://www.vapsint.com/en/technology-and-characteristics-of-gas-springs/
http://www.machinedesign.com/archive/properly-specify-and-install-gas-springs-long-term-lifting-help

And the University of Illinois explains rather well that steel springs "seem" stronger in cold weather, not because the steel itself sees any changes in its characteristics (Young's and Sheer's moduli), but because, as is natural, steel shrinks in the cold and a coiled spring has a lot of steel length in a short space and that makes the spring "shorter" in cold weather. So, it is not the "k" in the spring that changes, but the "x" of relative displacement.

Furthermore, the Universal Gas Law ALSO applies to the air in the compression chamber, so, while there is less pressure in the gas spring, there is also more air to be compressed in the compression chamber, you loose some you win some.
Density of air at 303 °K is 1.1644
Density of air at 263°K is 1.3413
difference is 15% on the air density, 14% on the gas spring pressure.
Alas, our airguns are far from perfectly efficient machines. So these two differences do not cancel themselves out.

One of the things I emphasize in the entry is that this is one of those "ONE GUN" experiments; the other way of looking at it, is that it presents, in a fairly objective way, the differences between a professionally tuned gun and one that is "as issued".

And here is where we can do interesting things together. As an independent tester, you are far more credible than anyone linked to the industry in any capacity (me included).

So, bottom line, if you are interested in a cooperative effort, please drop me a line through my "Contact" page.

I am sure we can provide some solid information to the general users out there.

Thanks again for posting, keep well and shoot straight!



HM

Reply
Donnie Reed
1/3/2018 22:46:25

I am absolutely, and enthusiastically, interested sir!

Message sent. :)




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    Hector Medina

    2012 US National WFTF Spring Piston Champion
    2012 WFTF Spring Piston Grand Prix Winner
    2013 World's WFTF Spring Piston 7th place
    2014 Texas State WFTF Piston Champion
    2014 World's WFTF Spring Piston 5th place.
    2015 Maine State Champion WFTF Piston
    2015 Massachusetts State Champion WFTF Piston
    2015 New York State Champion WFTF Piston
    2015 US National WFTF Piston 2nd Place
    2016 Canadian WFTF Piston Champion
    2016 Pyramyd Air Cup WFTF Piston 1st Place
    2017 US Nationals Open Piston 3rd Place
    2018 WFTC's Member of Team USA Champion Springers
    2018 WFTC's 4th place Veteran Springer
    2020 Puerto Rico GP Piston First Place
    2020 NC State Championships 1st Place Piston
    2022 Maryland State Champion WFTF 
    2022 WFTC's Italy Member of TEAM USA 2nd place Springers
    2022 WFTC's Italy
    2nd Place Veteran Springers

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