Connecticut Custom Airguns
  • Welcome!
  • Hector's Airgun Blog
  • Products and Products Blog
    • One-Off's
    • The "Héctors Special'" scope by Sightron
    • K1050i FT
    • The Hex Louver or "Secret Sunshade"
    • Pellet Path Calculator >
      • Questions, Answers and Comments on P-P Calc
      • Privacy Policy for PP-Calc
    • The Nautilus SideWheel
    • The X-10 TiltMeter
  • Zimmer-Silhouetten
    • Results 2017-2018
    • Results 2016-2017
    • Results 2015-2016
    • Results 2014-2015
    • Results 2013-2014
  • References and Links
  • Contact us
  • Store

Hector's Airgun Blog

Where we discuss, CIVIILY,  anything airgun.

Return Home

Noch zwei weitere Großartige Damen .- Part 2                ©

2/8/2022

4 Comments

 

Gun #2.- An attempt at shooting FT under German rules

Germans enjoy good engineering, but getting a license to operate an airgun at higher than the Olympic Match power level (5.5 ft-lbs / 7.5 J)  is a long and complicated process (also somewhat expensive).
But still, there are enough Germans shooting FT in Classes 4 and 5 that there are actually matches held for those.
Class 4 is the "F in Pentagon" (under 7.5 Joules/5.5 Ft-lbs) spring-piston rifles that recoil
Class 5 is the "F in Pentagon" (under 7.5 Joules/5.5 Ft-lbs) spring-piston rifles with recoil-less actions
These two classes are shot at distances between 9 and 25 meters (as opposed to 9 to 50 meters that the 12 ft-lbs limit game is played).

If you have ever tried to shoot a Match airgun at 27 yards (25 meters), you will realize that it is not an easy task. especially in the outdoors.

Here in the US, we do not have those limitations, and so, when someone talks about "indoor FT" (where distances pretty much correspond to Class 4 and 5 airguns in German FT), eyebrows are raised, and some even start gathering green firewood to burn the heretics, LOL!

But, we're moving too fast ahead, let's talk about THE RIFLE.

As we said in the first part of this entry, we had procured TWO LGV's directly from Germany:

The First one, we discussed extensively in that entry, and so we will not go into it again here.

Gun Number 2 had lost all historical or collector value because a scope rail had been added.
Here is a picture of the modification made by a German gunsmith, attaching the scope rail where normally the "Walther" brand and Patent statement would have been visible:
Picture
To compare, this is the original "unmolested" one from Gun #1:
Picture
It might be clear to the advanced airgunner that the rail itself seems to be handmade.

In any case, as I said above, this rail destroyed any collector's value the gun could have had and so, it made for a good test-bench to try a few different things and see where the limits of the little engines lie as far as power with accuracy is concerned. And, do please, remember at all times that power by itself is useless in airguns without accuracy.

The same gooey mass came out of the compression chamber of gun #2, and we used the same method (acetone) to dissolve the slime, and a contoured brass rod to scrape, without scratching, the compression chamber walls.
The same HMO style piston went into this gun with an Urethane ORing because the temperatures and the pressures  expected do not warrant the use of HNBR material.

I will not go into all the details of the different things tried (we tried Titan springs #'s 7, 10, and 1; plus the OEM spring and the two counter-wound OEM half-springs), but the end result was very interesting:

Using a Titan # 1 spring, cut to 21 total coils (yes, it was a drastic cut off), we obtained  a VERY nice shot cycle, somewhat skewed towards the light pellets normal for these guns:

The Diabolo Basic yielded 678 ± 4 fps
The QYS.-                         566 ± 5 fps
The JSB RS's.-                  575± 5 fps
And then, just out of curiosity, I tested the Domed GTO's (made out of tin using the JSB Exact 10.34 die) and what a surprise.-               732 ± 4 fps
the "little engine" was doing 8.1 ft-lbs at the muzzle!

I've heard of FWB 300's that using the JM/ARH "Arctic" spring yielded 7½ to 8 ft-lbs, but I have never actually seen, tested, nor shot one. So, to me, that is still "vaporware". But this is reality.

Checking the accuracy, at first was somewhat disheartening. The D-B shot well, but as a wad-cutter, it was not precisely FT material.
The RS's performed very poorly, but that detracts nothing of the JSB quality, it just means that the bore is a little on the large side.
The GTO's were nothing to brag about, and so I started thinking:

Here was a gun that was NEVER intended to reach the 8 ft-lbs, the barrel was pencil-thin, and the weight enhancing "anchor" of a sleeve was not there. Originally, it had borne a medium weight sleeve, but we did not need weight, we needed rigidity.
And then it flashed into my mind some experiments performed way back when (1975-1976), with an ultralight-mountain rifle in a heavy caliber.
And so, I decided to put a tensioning sleeve on the little LGV.

I procured some CF tubes in different sizes and tried various combinations of wall thickness to tensions.

​I also tried the Baracuda Green pellets.

In the end, the best result was obtained with a 15X18 CF tube tensioned to 35 in-lbs:
Picture
At 10 meters, from the FT position with the OEM peep sights, the performance was quite rewarding.

But, what to do with this gun? apart from shooting Olympic Match, of course, ROFL!

Well, my good friends at Palmyra Sportsman's Association provided the answer:
They hosted an indoor/winter FT session (not really a Match), that had targets between the 10 yards and the 22 yards that their indoor range allowed.

Obviously, the idea was to put some "handicap" into the shoot by not shooting my "formal" competition airgun. It's no fun to clean a course that has been designed for less energy and less ranging capabilities.

So, this little gun came in perfectly for the task. How perfectly? you will have to be patient because first we need to talk a bit more about the gun.

The challenge to shoot indoors and still make it a meaningful event, starts with the optics.

You simply cannot put a monster scope atop a relatively little engine. Yes, you will range perfectly, but that is not a challenge! I started looking over my collection of scopes and although I have some really remarkable specimens, after some testing between eye relief, magnification, weight and mounting options, the only real solution was a Leapers Bug-Buster, set in a pair of old steel RWS adjustable mounts.
Why the need for adjustable mounts?
Consider that the OEM peep sight has about 50 MOA's of elevation capacity. There is NO scope in this size that can match that.
And the rifle's architecture does correspond to that. So: adjustable mounts!

​Here is the result:
Picture
In here I have to say that I wish the original owner could now see the gun. All the expense and trouble to add a rail, in reality was not needed. The RWS steel mount is installed in the same dovetail that the OEM peeps sit.
Here is a view of the OEM peep arrangement:
Picture
And here is a view of the Bug-Buster equipped rifle:
Picture
Clean, light, unobtrusive.

And, so  equipped, I shot some distance targets to try to establish the trajectory:
Picture
Measuring the drop and measuring the LOS height, I came up with some reasonable idea of the trajectory, which we will discuss in the entry for the indoor FT event.
​Overall the gun is a pleasure to look at, to shoot, and to carry.
Picture
The Glossy CF tube adds some texture and bling, while contrasting with the matte of the sighting equipment.
Picture
In the old days they knew what they were doing and made no qualms about reinforcing the wrist/pistol grips of Match guns. By the very definition of a Match gun, it is a gun that will travel.
And they didn't use ugly wood either:
Picture
So, I packed scoped gun, pellets and all the necessary accessories and headed to Palmyra, where the sighting-in cards offered a rewarding and amusing testimony:
Picture
5 shots at 12 yards above and 10 shots at the same distance, but with "1 mil" elevation, below.
Picture
At 22 yards with various aiming variations. 5 shot groups. From the knee.

One thing that did became apparent early on is that the gun is temperature dependent. I am not saying sensitive, because 50° F of temperature swing is nothing to sneeze at. The gun had stayed in the trunk of the car overnight, and then brought into the indoors range where we were shooting in long sleeved T Shirts.

After a little while and with a little bit of action, the gun stabilized and I started shooting the course.
Picture
But that, as my Father used to say: "Is another story"  ;-)

Keep well and shoot straight!





HM                                                                                                                                                          © 08/02/22
4 Comments
Paul Manktelow
2/17/2022 21:28:14

Thanks again for a nice article. I'm planning on coming down to Palmyra this year and try there outdoor range.

Reply
Hector Medina
2/18/2022 11:20:41

Thank YOU, Paul!

Hope to see you in the March shoot, why not?

;-)

Keep well and shoot straight!





HM

Reply
RidgeRunner
4/3/2022 07:57:46

Hey Hector!

I am back! I have several air rifles that fall into this power range, though none of them are "match" rifles such as this. Well maybe they are, but from an earlier era. I have a 1906 BSA and a FLZ Original that I do not have a date for. I also have a Diana 50.

I used to have a couple of FWB300's and you can push the power up a little bit by replacing the metal piston ring with good quality o rings.

I usually shoot these air rifles at 10 and 25 yards. I find them to be very accurate. I also do so enjoy the old perlkorn sights on some of these old gals.

How did you put the tension on the barrel sleeve?

Reply
Hector Medina
4/3/2022 08:47:59

Hello RR!

Thanks for reading.

Old LGV's had a threaded muzzles because they were designed to "grow" with the competitor.
From no sleeve, to a thick, heavy steel sleeve that weighed well over 2#, Walther made sure that shooters had a "growth path".
The lead weight in the stock is removeable and wood replacements were offered, though often they were home-brewed as it is a simple block with a hole for the spring-loaded plunger.

So, the threaded muzzle was there to secure the different weight sleeves, and there were nuts of varying OD's to suit different weight sleeves.

I simply took advantage of this and ordered a CF tube of the appropriate dimensions.

If your rifles do not have the threaded ends, you can maybe make an end nut that affixes to the gun with grub screws located in register dimples in the barrel, and then an internal part that you can turn using a pin wrench to "lengthen" this part towards the breech. That will put tension enough in the barrel. And, will make the arrangement adjustable.

If you do decide to make this, keep us posted!






HM

Reply



Leave a Reply.

    Hector Medina

    2012 US National WFTF Spring Piston Champion
    2012 WFTF Spring Piston Grand Prix Winner
    2013 World's WFTF Spring Piston 7th place
    2014 Texas State WFTF Piston Champion
    2014 World's WFTF Spring Piston 5th place.
    2015 Maine State Champion WFTF Piston
    2015 Massachusetts State Champion WFTF Piston
    2015 New York State Champion WFTF Piston
    2015 US National WFTF Piston 2nd Place
    2016 Canadian WFTF Piston Champion
    2016 Pyramyd Air Cup WFTF Piston 1st Place
    2017 US Nationals Open Piston 3rd Place
    2018 WFTC's Member of Team USA Champion Springers
    2018 WFTC's 4th place Veteran Springer
    2020 Puerto Rico GP Piston First Place
    2020 NC State Championships 1st Place Piston
    2022 Maryland State Champion WFTF 
    2022 WFTC's Italy Member of TEAM USA 2nd place Springers
    2022 WFTC's Italy
    2nd Place Veteran Springers

    Archives

    August 2022
    May 2022
    April 2022
    February 2022
    August 2021
    July 2021
    June 2021
    May 2021
    April 2021
    March 2021
    February 2021
    October 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    April 2018
    March 2018
    February 2018
    January 2018
    December 2017
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    March 2017
    December 2016
    October 2016
    September 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016
    March 2016
    January 2016
    December 2015
    November 2015
    October 2015
    September 2015
    August 2015
    June 2015
    May 2015
    April 2015
    March 2015
    February 2015
    January 2015
    December 2014
    November 2014
    October 2014
    August 2014
    July 2014
    June 2014
    May 2014
    March 2014
    February 2014
    December 2013
    November 2013
    October 2013
    September 2013

    Categories

    All
    Events
    Gear
    Hunting
    Tests

    RSS Feed

Proudly powered by Weebly